Posts by Joe Grundy

" (One small difference here is that orthodox Christianity did not just draw on Paul but also other early apostles who contributed to the conceptual character of the Church). "

My knowledge of Christianity was always that favoured by the western churches - i.e. the RCs and the protestant bits that flowed from that.

One day in Cyprus I picked up an orthodox bible and read the foreword, which explained the differences and the history of the great schism in about 1000AD (?). Interesting, because most of us in western cultures take the RC based religion as 'christianity' we don't understand the differences. In fact, putting it in context, the eastern orthodox version (being geographically much closer to its roots) is probably closer to the origins.

49

Did Paul Invent Christianity?

by smmcroberts in

i think the answer is largely yes.

please read my latest blog and see if you agree.. the witnesses had better stock up on goats and stones to make up for lost time!.

Joe Grundy

One of the things that got me thinking, many years ago, was the portrayal in the NT of life under Roman occupation. It was presented as a hazy, not very nice but not so bad time.

As a general rule in life, it's important to know the context in which something is said or written - and to remember that history is written by the victors. (Increasingly nowadays archaeology is unearthing (no pun intended) accounts left behind by the losers).

A little research reveals that the reality of occupied Palestine was very different. Life was harsh and there were fairly constant undercurrents and eruptions of revolt, particularly by those 'zealous for the law' of their god. They believed that the land, the people and everything that it produced belonged to their god and that it was their holy duty to resist unbelievers (see any paralells today?).

Jesus (whoever he was) was one of thousands executed by the Romans for rebellion. (Don't forget that Romans practiced 'decimation' - i.e. killing 1 in 10 of their own soldiers - if there was a threat of rebellion in the ranks. They did not believe in 'group hugs' and sitting down to talk out the issues.) They probably had a point - he had been involved in a major public disturbance in the temple precincts (the 'money changers' tables') and when he was arrested they sent a 'cohort' (perhaps about 600 soldiers). All was not as 'fluffy' as often portrayed.)

By the time the gospels and Acts were written there had been years of increasing armed revolt, guerilla warfare, Qumran, Masada and finally in 70AD the sack of Jerusalem and forced dispersal.

It was not a good time to be promoting a new religion (which seems to have been Paul's motivation, not dissimilar to Russell or Joseph Smith) whose main figure had been executed and that's probably why the gospels put the blame for the death of Jesus on the Jews (with the inevitable consequences).

It is interesting to note that as Paul was going round on his journeys, James was sending others after him to correct his teachings (if we are to believe what we read).

I lived in Paphos, Cyprus, from 2005 to 2010. My morning walk took me past the ancient burial tombs, the house of the Roman governor of Cyprus (probably) - the mosaic floors are still there - and an ancient Jewish subterranean place of worship. Oh, and past the alleged 'St Paul's Pillar', where he was supposed to have been tied and whipped.

I was always intrigued by the story of Paul in Paphos. It was there he changed his name from Saul, after meeting and allegedly converting the Roman governor Sergius Paulinus. That's where he is supposed to have met the Jewish guy 'Bar-Jesus' and blinded him in a trial of faiths. I have no idea of the truth of that story (I think its in Acts 9 or thereabouts) and I doubt that it will ever be known. Seems a bit allegorical to me.

To repeat myself - context is everything. The more we know about what was actually going on in Palestine (and the rest of the Roman empire) the more (probably) we will understand the truth behind the NT.

Just my opinion.

16

Non-Americans: Do You Engage in Back and Forth at Election Time

by Band on the Run in

i just read a thread concerning romney's comments that anyone who receives a government entitlement is a loser.

not very wise to say.. i am curious whether the threads here, where people tell each other off and have no hard facts, are typical of other countries.

a substantial prize should await any poster who convinces the other side that they are wrong.

Joe Grundy

Interesting question. As a UK citizen I confess that I don't understand much of US politics. I think that we're going the same way but thankfully we're a long way off.

Money talks here as well, of course, but we're a long way off the huge amounts spent there. 'Soundbites' are common here as well, but I suspect that there is a little more reasoned debate. We have the BBC which is frequently accused of being partisan by all sides, which tends to indicate that it's doing a fairly good job of being neutral.

I'm not sure if I understand this correctly, but in the US when you register as a voter do you (or can you) register as a supporter of a particular party? If so, that's different here.

I think the main difference here is that we don't vote for the Head of State (and I'm quite happy about that) or the Prime Minister. In each constituency (there are 650) we vote on who we want to be our Member of Parliament. The incumbent PM stands for election as an MP just like everyone else and it's feasible (but I don't think it's happened that he would not be elected).

The party that wins an overall majority chooses one of the MPs to be Prime Minister (which is automatically ratified by HMQ).

In every constituency there are many candidates, from the maor political parties (3 or 4, depending on how you calculate) but almost always with independents, 'single issue' candidates and the just plain daft (e.g. 'Monster Raving Looney Party' which has a following). The deposit you have to put up to stand for election is relatively small and anyone who wants to enjoy the experience could probably afford it.

Because of our system (flawed though it is) nobody knows until the end of election night which party will form the government and therfore who will be Prime Minister. We don't have the problem where the Head of State is of one peruasion but the legislature is of another.

I may well stand to be corrected on this. One of the good things in our system, I believe, is that the leader of a main political party could fail to be elected as an MP and so wouldn't even figure in the scheme of things.

59

Pursuing higher education is comparable with having OCD - according to Gerrit Losch

by cedars in

after i posted my last "getting to know you" video where gerrit losch explains his "unique" views on armageddon, a couple of posters mentioned that other similarly controversial comments had been made by gerrit concerning higher education.. well, these comments were actually made in the same recording as the one i used in making the "armageddon" video, so i thought i should make the second video focussing on these.. here it is.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b7drwti-h4.

i realize many heavily indoctrinated publishers will try to defend these remarks by saying that, if it isn't in the society's publications, then gerrit losch's personal opinion is of no particular consequence.

however, the bible says that "out of the heart's abundance the mouth speaks", so by making these videos i hope i am at least showing people what is in the hearts of the men who lead us, and who claim to act as the mouthpiece of the slave class.. .

Joe Grundy

This is not a political point, but Losch's effectiveness as a speaker seems to be on a par with Clint Eastwood's recent conversation with a chair.

I heard a radio programme where an interviewer asked Eastwood about that appearance. He is alleged to have said 'They were dumb enough to ask me'.

26

Here are the pics of the 2012 Gilead Graduation, etc........

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

http://andreandclaudia.blogspot.com/.

Joe Grundy

Well, after all that I've heard and read about 'Andre' how nice to finally meet him and hear about the 'hand-selected' 5 month education and encouraging speeches at the graduation.

Just one question - I thought JWs were discouraged from using the internet other than to access the official WT site?

(The pics of large screens reminded me of Orwell's '1984').

14

Jehovah's Witnesses do not get divorces

by Las Malvinas son Argentinas in

jw
friends

famous last words.. this is what my mum told me when papa moved out.

when it did finally happen months later, it was because he had left jehovah.

i hated him for many years and refused to speak to him.

Joe Grundy

Congratulations and very best wishes.

I've been married and divorced twice. My first wife of 23 years, the mother of our children (and grandmother of our grandchildren) and I are still very good and close friends. There is still a lot of love there (just not the 'living together' kind) and I am very thankful for that.

Just because two adults choose not to live together any more doesn't mean they don't care for or love their children.

39

A JW called me a moron.

by shepherd in

well, i finally got a chance to discuss religion with a jw at the door.

i have been looking forward to it for a long time, now i know what questions to ask that will cause them to eat their reasoning book in panic.

but no, there was no long in depth bible discussion.

Joe Grundy

My belief is that it is futile to discuss religion with the brain-washed (or brain-dead).

If someone really, really, believed what they were preaching they would be only too happy to share their good news (however wacko it might be). Perhaps your experience reveals that the dubs now, more than ever, are just going through the motions. Their highest hope is probably 'not at home'.

6

'Field Service' - Instant Response

by Joe Grundy in

i was on the phone yesterday evening to an elderly lady friend of mine.

she's almost housebound now, (we're fighting that) but is a fiercely independent spirit.

bacpacking in south america in her 50s, teaching in the wilds of nepal, that sort of thing.

Joe Grundy

I was on the phone yesterday evening to an elderly lady friend of mine. She's almost housebound now, (we're fighting that) but is a fiercely independent spirit. Bacpacking in South America in her 50s, teaching in the wilds of Nepal, that sort of thing. She has pink hair and pink Doc Marten boots. She is an atheist and is as cynical and sceptical about religion as I am. She (like most people) knew nothing of JWs, viewing them as mildly weird people who pestered people on their doorsteps. We've had some good conversations where I've shared what I know about the truth about this dangerous and destructive cult.

As we were talking she looked out of the window and noticed some dubs working their way up her street. I tried to think quickly of something she could use when they got to her door. Pyramids? 1914/1918/1975? Blood? Christmas celebrations? Creation and mankind being 6,500 years old? Beth Sarim? Post-armageddon survivors burying 1,000 corpses each? Divine radiation?

All of these thoughts and more ran through my mind - but were dismissed. She and I went to our fall-back position, which is that it is futile to try and discuss religion with the brainwashed.

As it turned out, they didn't knock at her door. Maybe their 'territory records' have a note that the pink-haired, pink DM wearing, elderly lady in a wheelchair is beyond redemption ...